make cortex deactivation extremely rare

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make cortex deactivation extremely rare

excellent. (+2)
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could be cool. (+1)
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do not like it. (-1)
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Total votes : 13

make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Juan » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:33 pm

for example, the only situation in which it'd deactivate would be if you're surrounded by two or more friendlies and zero enemies

because something seems to be wrong as it currently deactivates 95% of the time, even if an enemy is 10 feet away
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby bauxite » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:19 pm

i dont get it.

isnt it currently designed to:

Explode in the presence of enemies, if that would cause any enemies greater than or equal to 1 damage (should always be a fixed distance then right?), no matter the number of friendlies present.
and
deactivate if no enemies would be damaged.

(which is what you are saying, besides the two friendlies part which seems a little pointless, why 2? not 3 or 4?, and or just 1, which seems much more simpler.)

however the problem seems to be, it deactivates even when, experience tells us, that enemies would be damaged.

many alternatives have been suggested, i think the most simlpe solution would be that it causes damage like any other explosive regardless of enemies or friendlies presence, and so even alone it would activate and kill you and cause the environment damage, for example turrents and objectives.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Juan » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:44 pm

the short answer is that in any given situation I would rather explode and not hit anybody then have it defuse into a wet fart and get shot immediately afterwards
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby aridian » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:46 am

in my opinion cortex is great as it is now and is useful as last moment's speedboost to win enemy -even without detonating.

so -1
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Hyphen-ated » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:58 am

The problem here is the bug that makes it fail to explode when there are enemies
the short answer is that in any given situation I would rather explode and not hit anybody then have it defuse into a wet fart and get shot immediately afterwards
Wouldn't you rather defuse your cortex into a wet fart and then go shoot someone immediately afterwards?
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby bauxite » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:46 pm

in my opinion cortex is great as it is now and is useful as last moment's speedboost to win enemy -even without detonating.

so -1
this is not even really a suggestion, its more like a request for a bug fix.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Pada » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:10 pm

cybernetic, 2nd objective, meatspace contestable JIP.

I'm in the JIP as punk with 2 corps in there with me, my cortex goes off, i get excited, almosy kill them...

"cortex deactivated"

me

"wtf"?

this cant be a range issue.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Infrequent » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:15 pm

From what i've seen, it's a bug, tbh this suggestion is kinda pointless because if the bug is fixed (or whatever you want to call it) then it'll be fine.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Juan » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:08 pm

The problem here is the bug that makes it fail to explode when there are enemies
the short answer is that in any given situation I would rather explode and not hit anybody then have it defuse into a wet fart and get shot immediately afterwards
Wouldn't you rather defuse your cortex into a wet fart and then go shoot someone immediately afterwards?
not when I deactivate one foot away from them (this has happened 3 times to me, including while stealthed) while they're already trying to shoot down my cortex

edit:

I was thinking about it and the only way these deactivations could be happening so often is if it only calculates the range at the moment the cortex is triggered, not when it's about to go off (which should probably be switched)
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Hyphen-ated » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:50 am

Right now it tests for the presence of enemies 0.55 seconds before it would have exploded, so it can cut off the "goodbye" voice and say "deactivated" instead. Having it say "goodbye" and then *not* blow up is bad.

It seems most likely to me right now that there is not actually a detection bug, and 0.55 seconds is just too long, because it's too easy to get in range in that time. I guess "goodbye" has to be removed; or maybe it should play at the same time as the explosion. I'm not sure if you'd be able to hear it well enough, though.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby bauxite » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:07 am

cant it be less than 0.55?

i still dont really get how it works, so if you are out of range 0.55 seconds before it would explode, then get into range, it will deactivate?

whereas in 1.2 it always exploded, but didnt always do damage if no enemies where near?

i forget exactly, isnt it possible to somehow revert to that behaviour, and keep the staying alive part (i dont much care for that part anyway, even though, this is what apparently makes the cortex better lol)

anyway, this gives me an idea for some, super testing.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Hyphen-ated » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:11 am

cant it be less than 0.55?
That's how long it takes to say "goodbye". During the supporter beta it would just say "goodbye" and then decide not to blow up, which was weird and confusing. However, enough people are having problems with the .55 seconds that it seems a lot worse to have the timer.

The goodbye message is cool and funny, so I hope it sounds good to play it during the explosion.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Omnigord » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:27 am

Wouldn't one of the best solutions be to make it test slightly farther than just the max range of the explosion?
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Zero-Flame » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:23 am

Not really because you could have teammates in range and no enemies and then blow up doing no damage to the enemy team and killing off all of your team :P
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Omnigord » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:48 am

Not really because you could have teammates in range and no enemies and then blow up doing no damage to the enemy team and killing off all of your team :P
I would say that's one of the risks of using cortex. If it gets activated and you have a friend nearby and a foe just barely out of range, you should still explode.

I guess it's just different views of game design. Personally, I feel there should be harsh penalties on a mechanic that can potentially give such great benefits. The way it is now (current bug/glitch aside), most of the time you break even or win. A win being high damage to 1 or more foes and no friendlies and breaking even being not exploding. I just think it should be possible to explode and not hit any enemies.

Having a second radius slightly larger than the blast radius to check for enemies would (for the most part) prevent intentional griefing with the cortex bomb, but still allow players to fuck up legitimately and friendly fire while trying to hit enemies.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Juan » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:34 pm

yeah, the safety features are actually a harsher downside in their current form, because if it deactivates you potentially get all the risk with none of the reward

also you could try playing the "goodbye" sound immediately after the explosion sound if the overlap is too noisy
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Hyphen-ated » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:48 pm

Personally, I feel there should be harsh penalties on a mechanic that can potentially give such great benefits.
Harsh penalties aren't usually fun. It's appropriate for an implant to make you usually break even or win.

There's also the issue that the more often cortex hurts teammates, the more it's a newbie punisher. (I define a "newbie punisher" to be an element of the game that makes a newbie on your team worse than an empty spot) Newbie punishers are a problem in Dystopia, I have intentionally removed many of them, and I will continue to do so. The worst thing about newbie punishers is that they make people act hostile towards newbies on their own team, instead of just ignoring them.
also you could try playing the "goodbye" sound immediately after the explosion sound if the overlap is too noisy
This seems like it puts the setup after the punchline :/
better than nothing though I guess.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Omnigord » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:29 pm

Personally, I feel there should be harsh penalties on a mechanic that can potentially give such great benefits.
Harsh penalties aren't usually fun. It's appropriate for an implant to make you usually break even or win.

There's also the issue that the more often cortex hurts teammates, the more it's a newbie punisher. (I define a "newbie punisher" to be an element of the game that makes a newbie on your team worse than an empty spot) Newbie punishers are a problem in Dystopia, I have intentionally removed many of them, and I will continue to do so. The worst thing about newbie punishers is that they make people act hostile towards newbies on their own team, instead of just ignoring them.
That makes sense, and I recognize that it's just a choice of design. But my stance is that making it more friendly in the beginning will make it less rewarding in the end. It's just a little more of a rush if, when you hear the cortex winding up, you think "I may be able to explode many reds" but also keep in mind that "I may accidentally explode all my teammates". As opposed to "The only option is blowing up reds, teammates will be fine"
also you could try playing the "goodbye" sound immediately after the explosion sound if the overlap is too noisy
This seems like it puts the setup after the punchline :/
better than nothing though I guess.
What if after *deactivated* played, if it played after "goodbye", it was follow by a low whisper of *I really lucked out* or something to that effect.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Pyroguy » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:18 am

Make it say goodbye, but have sverek come up with some uber awesome fizzle out sound to play (stretching the last syllable). Amirite?
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Xaxu » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:14 pm

What IS the range of the cortex, anyway? I can give you a perfect solution if I could get that little bit of information. Sadly, I can't find it ANYWHERE.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby BigToeCommando » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:49 pm

What IS the range of the cortex, anyway? I can give you a perfect solution if I could get that little bit of information. Sadly, I can't find it ANYWHERE.
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Xaxu » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:07 pm

How'd I miss that?

Anyway, 512 unit range for Cortex, 250 units/second for light or med w/legs, that gives .4s, which would allow somone to run completely free of the range if they were standing next to it at the point of the check.

Option two, .25 seconds, which would only allow a light w/legs to excape.

Math was done in my head, so it might be a little off (I rounded for simplicity).
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Hyphen-ated » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:21 pm

There was a detection bug. I just fixed it today. Props to bob_the_avenger and charkles for reliable reproduction steps to make it fail
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby Juan » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:24 am

oh boy oh boy
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Re: make cortex deactivation extremely rare

Postby DigitalGirlfriend » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:30 pm

It'd be easier to add a *force detonation* by hitting the implant key after the charging up noise starts, with no going back if it's done.

/super edit

actually after playing with cortex, the cortex deactivation is the worst idea ever - I have no idea why came up with this because it's 120% bull. I've just been DEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATEDDEACTIVATED so much. Try to hide behind something to time cortex? DEACTIVATED opponent behind a wall, run around and be right next to him? DEACTIVATED this is on a 60 ping server as well!

In fact the game just keeps DEACTIVATED so much the only time cortex gets any kills is when some extremely aggressive with extremely bad aim insists on following you despite the sound of cortex activating. It feels so useless.

It seems to work just like longtana as well, which makes it EXTRA FRUSTRATING ie people will cortex you from twenty miles away but you'll get DEACTIVATED unless if you're right in their faces

I swear if you don't stay perfectly right next to someone the entire beeping duration it's going to deactivate. It makes me so :x mad

reading hyphs post a force deto button sound perfect. newbies won't know about it and won't blow up their teammates, and I can actually like, USE THE IMPLANT
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